A Blank Spot on the Map

Tuesday, December 13, 2011

7 figure methinks....and that's taxes

Obama's Math Works... methinks wrote, “Ultimately, the government never seems to be able to collect more than what? 22% of GDP in taxes? I think that’s the upper bound. So, the tax rate will go up, people will work less or lobby for and get loopholes. Less wealth will be created because it is punished. The people who will be able to become wealthy will be the ones with political access – in other words, the already wealthy. Opportunities for the poor but inventive will decrease. ” We are now at about 15%.. the lower bound? How’s it working? And yeah we lost ALL the good people back in the 50′s and 60′s who paid much more to pave the nice infrastructure that YOU came to these shores to enjoy and profit from but now refuse do pay back into the system. Good luck protecting your wealth when the system breaks down merely because this generation seems to think it earned everything it has and owes nothing back. I strongly suggest you might read John Bogle’s book The Battle for the Soul of Capitalism. He saw this coming and wrote well about it. REPLY Dances with Wolves December 13, 2011 at 9:57 am George, you read a book? Really? REPLY Methinks1776 December 13, 2011 at 10:32 am Okay, moron, let’s play that game. You enjoy and profit from the infrastructure and whatever nonsense you imagine as well. My annual tax bill is never lower than seven figures. How much does a useless punter like you pay to enjoy the benefits? Why should I have to subsidize an idiot like you? REPLY Greg G December 13, 2011 at 10:38 am What? People who make more, pay more in taxes? Can’t that be fixed? REPLY Greg Webb December 13, 2011 at 10:48 am Okay, moron … Stop the abusive comments, PLEASE! REPLY Greg G December 13, 2011 at 11:30 am GW Let me get this straight. You and Methinks spew out every insult you can think of at muirgeo for months on end but you think what I have written is abusive? On second thought I guess I do need to take back that hurtful comment about you not having a sense of humor. REPLY muirge0 December 13, 2011 at 10:50 am Wow 7 figures and that’s not enough for you? You are one of the poorest people I know. Is the money that you need or do you feel good because you think you are dong some great service to humanity. I pay my own way being a physician and making a good salary. See the problem for you is you think that for me my problem is that I want what you want or what you have. I absolutely do not. I do not want to sit deviantly in front of a bank of computers all day extracting wealth from people who actually provide services and make things for a living. I like that I have to only work 2 days of the next 16 and will be going on hikes with my kids and my dogs and drinking wine with my friends. I have EVERYTHING I need. My whole problem is seeing so many GOOD people who have so much less. I work with them everyday. I really just wish more people could have it as good as me and be as happy as me… that includes you. Most people just want what I want. Most do not have the deviant needs for all the excesses people like you seem to need. We really don’t need more people like you. We need more people who have what I have. That’s my aim…that’s my big hope. I really don’t understand what some one like you hopes for. I have to believe you are just in a miserable rut…surrounded with like minded people who have so lost their way. REPLY Methinks1776 December 13, 2011 at 11:01 am Of course you have everything you need, you filthy leech. I’m paying for it. REPLY muirgeo December 13, 2011 at 12:08 pm So this is stuff you really can’t talk about? Best not to go there heh? Yeah…too bad… best not to stress the small crack in the facade. Just keep going on pretending you’re important, you’re doing something important and that you’re worth it and that we need you and not the other way around… JUST LIKE ANY OTHER POWER HUNGER politician or other player. With a cohort of like minded peers you can stay shielded. You can trudge on. You got seven figures… I guess maybe eight… numbers in your head that feed the addiction… me. I’m walking an oak lined publicly owned ridgeline with my dog… looking out at creation through an awesome fall fog… and then I’m going to some real live birthday party’s at the Labor and Delivery unit I’ll be in charge of today. Fred December 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm Um, muir, when you treat those indigent poor people who can’t afford a skilled physician, you are being paid in dollars extracted from productive people like Methinks. Yet you despise her for paying your salary. That’s messed up. Jon Murphy December 13, 2011 at 1:58 pm I think it’s self-loathing. muirgeo December 13, 2011 at 3:20 pm Would you like to track back where methinks income comes from? She pays 15% on her income because of special government favors and I bet we pay for her airfair and her lunchs. Not to mention the Fed has heavily heavily subsidized her income and business via the banking and finance industry. In fact, my uncle and my countrymen and their blood and their dollars saved her motherland from Hitler and my father and our country fought and paid to rescue her ungrateful ass from communism. Now she comes her and makes 8 digit salaries trading with communist and whines like a god damn baby if some one tellls her that the rules are you pay back 91% of your top income… oh wait…that’s the rules everyone BEFORE her played by to set up this great gig she has. And all she does is complain. She is the poorest person I know. What an absolutly ungrateful pathetic person. As I said before I just want people to be as happy as me… exept I think she deserves her suffering… She’s an aweful person through and through. She needs some ghosts of Christmas to visit her before its too late. Randy December 13, 2011 at 11:25 am “We really don’t need more people like you.” That statement pretty much summarizes my take on what progressives are really all about. They are simply and malevolently intolerant. They can’t stand people who have more or want more. They pretend to care about those who have less, but I suspect that what they really feel for the poor is disgust. They want the planet all to themselves – unspoiled by all those other people. REPLY muirgeo December 13, 2011 at 3:25 pm No Randy I cherish and appreciate truly productive people. For them mostly their reward is seeing what they have bestowed on the world to make it richer. We’ve now set those people behind the whores who make money completly unrelated to doing anything productive. And THESE people, these wicked wwicked people let loose to benfit from the good work of honest caring people are the most devious devils of all… yet you wish to reward them with money anyway they can get it. YOU are damn fool. Libertarianism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone. Jon Murphy December 13, 2011 at 3:28 pm Just let him go, Randy. All he cares about is the 1%. All these people care about is money. That’s all they talk about, all they point to, all they can see. These guys care nothing for the 99% or Truth and Justice. All they want is to line their own pockets. Randy December 13, 2011 at 3:54 pm You know, because I have told you many times, that I have no love for those who exploit. But you have never proved that the people you resent, the people who “sit behind a bank of computers and move money”, are among the exploiters. The thing is, someone pays them – and pays them voluntarily. This fact means everything and yet you dismiss it out of hand. That is, you are completely accepting of political methods that are without question exploitation, but critical of people who make lots of money even though you have absolutely no evidence that what they do is exploitation. In summary, you simply want stuff for your friends and believe that the ends justify your means. And finally, you have developed a fondness for throwing out insults. It ain’t healthy and you know it. Best that you move along. But that said, enjoy your vaction. muirgeo December 13, 2011 at 4:04 pm “But you have never proved that the people you resent, the people who “sit behind a bank of computers and move money”, are among the exploiters. The thing is, someone pays them – and pays them voluntarily.” Randy, that you do not understand how Wall Street and the Banking industry and public and private debt they profit from is subsidized by the Fed is very sad. They are the most heavily subsidized indutry of all and they lobby more than any industry for special favors, laws, rules and policy from politicians. THEY ARE the poitical class Randy. Jon Murphy December 13, 2011 at 4:11 pm And yet, these are the people you want to give more power to.

My unoffical bet with Cafe Hayek

Cafe Hayek, Hayek's Gift

That’s cute but I think mis-informative.
Spending is growing and growing? What is the biggest new program any how? How much is it costing a year? Can you name it? We have laid off about 750,000 federal and state workers. Most of the increased spending is in the automatic stabilizers not new programs. There are NO new big programs that spending is going into.

Yes we have an aging and unemployed population. Does Hayek recommend that we cut payments to Medicare and Medicaid recipients? Should we cut back social security payments and unemployment payments? That will stimulate the billionaires with piles of cash to start investing? It will help how?

The fact is our current deficit of about $1.3 trillions consist roughly of :
$350 automatic stabilizers
$500 billion of lost revenues from the recession
$100 on defense
$350 Bush tax cuts

This IS Hayek’s austerity program. And as Krugman points out fanatical elements around the world are rearing their ugly heads.

The wealthy will have themselves to blame when they realize the cost of a civil society that protected their wealth is a good price to pay compared to the cost paid as society breaks down and their hated government is no longer their to protect their fortunes. This is all so un-necessary.

At this point as we watch our civilization crumble we should be aware its not for shortages of fuel or food or other material or even war or even natural disaster…. but for sheer unmitigated catastrophic greed. This is all so unnecessary. If I were to pick people to blame I’d blame Rush Limbaugh and Milton Friedman most. But if I was looking for institutional failures… the profession of economics has failed modern civilization more than any profession. It’s failed more than our legal system and even more than our political system. Wow …worse than lawyers and politicians…that’s bad.

It will be a long process coming through this but civilization may look much different in 10 -20 years. Hopefully for the better and not some god awful post apocalyptical society or some global dictatorship. It’s a scary time indeed.

Anyway, other then that..nice video.


Gordon Richens December 13, 2011 at 10:04 am
Not to worry. You won’t realize it for what it is.

John Papola December 13, 2011 at 10:09 am
Muirgeo, is total government spending in 2011 higher than in 2010 and was 2010 higher than 2009? That’s called “growing and growing and growing”. There is no “austerity”. Cuts in the rate of projected future spending growth are, um, still growth.

It is, frankly, a LUDICROUS abuse of language to call ANY of this “austerity”. Even if spending was cut by 15%, that’s still not “austerity” by any historical or global notion of the word. Our grandparents generation saw ACTUAL “austerity” during the depression and war.

It’s offensive to those living true lives of austerity that so many in the richest countries on earth living better than the richest people of only a generation ago are decrying slower growth of gifts and goodies as “austerity”. Give me a break.

Daniel Kuehn December 13, 2011 at 10:24 am
It seems to me growth should be looked at relative to trend, otherwise you can get into some trouble.

A midget grows as he gets older, but to infer from that that his growth is excessive or even normal is quite misleading.

Chucklehead December 13, 2011 at 11:40 am
It seems to me that the trend should be looked at whether it is sustainable or not, otherwise you can get into some trouble.

Seth December 13, 2011 at 11:57 am
How are human growth and government spending growth analogous?

g-dub December 13, 2011 at 1:28 pm
A midget grows as he gets older,…
I don’t think you are allowed to say “midget.”

Paul Brinkley December 13, 2011 at 4:02 pm
You’re only saying that because you don’t consider him a microeconomist.

muirgeo December 13, 2011 at 11:51 am
“It is, frankly, a LUDICROUS abuse of language to call ANY of this “austerity”.”

Yes, it’s never enough right. But from a Keynesian peerspective it sure isn’t stimulus. And I do believe we spent less in 2010 but more again in 2011.

And WHAT? Austerity during the Depression? What year? Did it work?


Jon Murphy December 13, 2011 at 12:25 pm
I think you misunderstood John’s statement. He wasn’t talking about government cutting spending. He was talking about real austerity: people having to do with very little when their incomes fell. Governments can print money at will to help pay off debts (inflate away debts, in other words). Real people cannot do that. Our grandparents had to cut back. That’s austerity.

muirgeo December 13, 2011 at 11:52 am

A simple question. What is the most expensive new program since Obama took office and how much did we spend on it in 2011?

Russ Roberts December 13, 2011 at 12:41 pm
Your question is irrelevant. The Keynesian dogma does not require new programs, just more spending. There is no austerity. Federal spending has increased dramatically since the recession began in 2007. The fact that the increase in expenditures wasn’t spent on new programs is irrelevant.

muirgeo December 13, 2011 at 1:35 pm

You’re the expert but I think your claims grossly distort Keynes ideas. We’ve cut government jobs by 750,000. If we had hired that many I’d bet we’d be much further along tough I hesitate to say towards recovery as the structural problems are too big to allow a normal recovery.

Here’s a non-monetary bet though. I bet that you will NOT see a significant recovery from this situation without a dramatic policy change. Any pushes further in the direction of cutting spending and government jobs will make thing worse.

The bet specifically:
When we are finally out of this the proportion of government workers will be UP not down.

Also, our exports will increase compared to imports, median wages will have risen, government receipts will be closer to 19 or 20 percent of GDP, homeowner debt will somehow be cleared (by policy) and income inequality will be decreased.

Any pushes in the opposite direction will make things worse.
This will take some time like the climate change debate but I bet I am right.

The only outlier is a complete societal meltdown and/or some massive wars or revolutions. I think that’s where we are at… and all for ideology over pragmatism.

Mesa Econoguy December 13, 2011 at 3:06 pm

indianajim December 13, 2011 at 10:35 am

“…the profession of economics has failed modern civilization more than any profession. ”

There are two glaring problems with your post: 1) Over aggregation (some economists have failed others have succeeded); and 2) Misidentification (Friedman, aside from the withholding tax blunder, was a great champion of individual and economic freedom).

The economists who have done the most harm, IMO, were/are the proponents of vulgar Keynesianisms. It is indeed the Beast that Won’t Die:


BTW, I must confess to having utter an ad hominem (dummkopf!) when I read your post. I’m only human after all; I have to admit I enjoyed it. And now I really feel great because: “Confession is good for the soul.”

Mesa Econoguy December 13, 2011 at 3:07 pm


Saturday, December 03, 2011

Billionaire hands Nei Cavuto his rear end

Neil ...here you go...here's your ass back....